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Gay?

Content Warning!

Mark Driscoll has been getting some heat as of late for some comments he made in a new e-book.  Here’s the part that has people talking.  Warning, it has to do with the M word:

Masturbation can be a form of homosexuality because it is a sexual act that does not involve a woman. If a man were to masturbate while engaged in other forms of sexual intimacy with his wife then he would not be doing so in a homosexual way. However, any man who does so without his wife in the room is bordering on homosexuality activity, particularly if he’s watching himself in a mirror and being turned on by his own male body.

This is the paragraph out of the whole booklet that people are taking out.  You can read it in it’s full context here (although I’m not sure that will help much).

Mark also introduces another new word to me in this piece:  monosexuality.

Growing up in the church, I’ve heard and read many reasons against masturbation.  Perry Noble wrote a widely-read piece on the subject back in 2006.

But I’ve never heard it at all linked to possibly being a form of homosexuality.

Have you?

Thoughts?

Todd



27 Responses to “ “Gay?”

  1. Brant says:

    Yes, I’ve heard that argued before and I often wonder about those who make that charge. As a gay man, I just have to chuckle when sexual orientation is reduced to the act of masturbation. I also have to wonder why Driscoll has a particular concern about men who do this while looking at themselves in a mirror and “being turned” on by their own bodies. I’ve never heard of this. I’m curious why Driscoll even mentions it. Don’t we often point out in others the demons we are working out within ourselves?

  2. J. says:

    That is definitely reaching-it’s also interesting that Mark does a bit of stage setting-who said that they were looking at themselves at all much less in a mirror? How about when women masterbate-is it the same for them? Sometimes Mark (and Perry for that matter) act like men are hypersexual and women are barely sexual at all when reality CLEARLY doesn’t agree with that. I think there is just as much danger in making what is ‘grey’ in the Bible appear to be ‘black and white’ as there is in doing the opposite. I have heard Perry’s argument where people will just ask a question of him as it pertains to objecting to his thoughts on masturbation and he will say something like, “Wow, so you r-e-a-l-l-y want to be the person who fights for masturbation huh???” as if the person who is asking a question is doing so only because they masturbate when they are clearly simply just asking the question. In full disclosure I am not against Perry or Mark but this odd over-emphasis on masculinity and things of this nature really is frustrating to me. On topics like these they don’t seem far from the silliness of the 80′s where people used to say that “men have sex for pleasure-women have sex for security” which is of course not exactly accurate to say the least.

  3. Robert says:

    Not so sure I can agree with Mark. Where is the sin? Who has been wronged in the act of masturbation? Does Mark say that masturbation is wrong only if you are married? What about a person, man or woman, who is single? Scripture clearly shows that homosexual activity is a sin. But does masturbation truly homosexual behavioir? If so then I would need to conclude that it is a sin at all times and for all people, married or unmarried. This is an area where I would need to be shown scripturally that Mark is correct.

    • Mark Hunter says:

      What does the Bible, or more importantly, Jesus say about masturbation?

      That’s right. Nothing.

      Yet “Pastor” Mark is paid cold, hard cash to write stuff like this.

      • Dennis says:

        All who disagree with M.D. are masterbaters, all who agree with him are closet masterbaters… Jeez i can’t believe we don’t have something more important to talk about. But, your right, it’ll sell books. Maybe there can be a Book Worship Tour and he can charge $25 a person to hear him speak on it?

        • Mark Hunter says:

          The Book Worship Tour sounds about right. After all, “Pastor” Mark and his ilk virtually already worship the Bible.

          • A medrano says:

            This leads me to another interesting question. We’re talking about males masterbating and it’s supposed link to homosexuality when done in front of a mirror, but what about females? Is there anywhere in the bible that says, women shouldn’t? And, maybe a little out of this scope but, I don’t think it’s found anywhere in scripture that woman and woman sex is forbidden.

  4. Dennis says:

    I think Mark needs to humble himself and go get some help! It’s troublesome! How big of an ego do you need to have to dogmatically speak from silence? How many lives are hurt from this type of conjecture? Sorry but it’s just weird!

  5. Dillon says:

    So it’s ok then for me to wax the surfboard if my wife is in the room? Lol. I dunno, I get Driscoll’s point and I also acknowledge it is a point that can be discussed, seriously though Mark?

  6. Dillon says:

    By the way the whole mirrors and masturbation thing has got a Chuck Norris saying all over it. I wish I could think of one appropriate for posting. :)

  7. Basil says:

    It sounds to me like Mark is a closeted and tormented gay man who really needs to work through some issues he has with accepting himself as God created him. I wish him well.

    I often seen, but never understood the fixation in certain Christian circles with openly condemning very specific, and often graphically detailed, sexual acts. At some point it becomes distasteful. This is one of those instances. There is something profoundly immature and prurient to Mark’s obsession with the “M-word”, and he compounds it by strangely linking it with the “h-word”

  8. Danna says:

    I got a chuckle over this one, unless your husband is masturbating thinking about a guy then it is not a gay act.
    I do agree with Mark habitual masturbation is wrong and that’s what your spouse is fulfilling each other’s desires, but it doesn’t always work out that way due to kids, stress etc.( besides sex is so much better than going solo) But some men are lazy and it does take more work than not to please their wives. Guys are so much easier to please.
    I also agree that you have to have lust in your heart in order to get your “party for 1″ started. GUILTY!
    So what does it make a woman Pastor Driscoll, a lesbian?
    From one woman’s perspective.

  9. Mark says:

    This is just another example of how today’s american christian church is nothing but a bunch of sexual perverts trying to imagine new ways to be disgusted. If you christians weren’t a bunch of perverts then these sexual topics wouldn’t keep coming up again and again and again……

    You aren’t fooling anyone. You are perverts. Confess now because you aren’t fooling god.

  10. Mark Hunter says:

    “Pastor” Mark is out of control and has increasingly been so since he threw his lot firmly in with the “young, restless, Reformed” group.

    He boasts about being free in Christ and saved by grace while at the same time writing legalistic nonsense like this.

    The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published a book for youths entitled “Your Youth: Getting the Most from It” that contained detailed information on the “dangers” of masturbation (or “self abuse” as they liked to refer to it), including suggesting that masturbation was linked to homosexuality.

    Of course, we all know that Jehovah’s Witnesses – governed as they are by the teachings contained in Watch Tower publications – are trapped in a high control, cult-like environment that exerts control over every aspect of their lives.
    Of course, some of us know that the writers of books like the one referred to above are sexually repressed men who had rules on how young men should urinate as to avoid actually touching their penis while they did so.

    But “Pastor” Mark is saved by grace and wouldn’t possibly be completely messed up sexually. And he most certainly isn’t looking to control or influence anyone’s sex life, is he?

    “Pastor” Mark’s output this year has focused a fair amount on effeminate men and sex, particularly of the homosexual variety.

    Why?

  11. Danna says:

    Mark are you married? I for one need to know what is permissible in the bedroom and what isn’t. Thank you Mark Driscoll writing such a book and being candid about the subject matter, even though I dont agree with all his views. Should we get advise from the world’s point of view or a pastor’s? I preder the later. I am not hooked on porn, but admittedly have some lust issues in my heart, and I thought Jim Cavezal was hot in “Passion of the Christ” and jokingly said “I just lusted after Jesus” sick sense of humor, I know.
    God designed our bodies to get “turned on” and masturbation is an important topic to address, whether you think so or not. Married sex isn’t perverted, only when we go outside God’s boundaries does it become perverted.

    • Dillon says:

      I think, Danna, that maybe we shouldn’t be looking to our pastors for advice on what’s acceptable or not in the bedroom.

      ‘ Married sex isn’t perverted, only when we go outside God’s boundaries does it become perverted. ‘

      Without forcing on the Bible what doesn’t seem to be there I think it’s best to use a bit of common sense.

      Speaking as a married man:

      One persons ideas of what’s perverted and anothers will be greatly varied. In my opinion, if it’s humiliation, violence, or acts of degradation that stir up passions, they probably aren’t good as those would seem to be the things that defile our spirits. To be specific also – I think toys or certain devices that would encourage fantasy are also out as that would be adultery. Otherwise, if there are two consenting adults, in the bond of marriage, I’m of the opinion that most anything goes.

      ** If I’ve gone beyond the bounds of decency Todd feel free to delete my comments. It seems to be an honest question that deserved an honest response. **

  12. Mark Hunter says:

    Todd, any chance of approving my comment, please, and if not a brief reason why? Much obliged!

  13. Danna says:

    Dillon I agree with your stance on sex toys, they can become the replacement of a husband and is a sens of committing adultry in your heart. When it comes down to it we need the let the Holy Spirit be our guide. If he convicts me I know I have done wrong in a certain area. I am just saying there are a lot of Christians married women (men?) who wonder is this okay to be doing and too embarrassed to ask the women/pastors of our church.

  14. Fred says:

    Why would a pastor even be getting into this?!?!?!?

  15. Danna says:

    Fred they are our spiritual leaders, right? The Bible has a lot to say about the subject. Rape, incest, married love, adultery. So the worlds view is twisted and the Christian needs guidance.

  16. Tim Wright says:

    Hi,

    I am amazed at this question. No one can say that they were led by the holy Spirit to masturbate. The church in the US is in the toilet if this is even an issue. Pleasing myself is not an act of surrendering my life to Jesus. Can anyone imagine Jesus masturbating? If you can, Can I encourage you to give your life to Christ and come to know HIM, not know about Him. Blessings

  17. rbud says:

    Whew! I’m okay with this. When I masturbate, my wife holds the mirror for me.

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