I Don’t Trust Pastors
Posted by Todd Rhoades in Leadership on Jun 1st, 2011 | 28 commentsElizabeth Esther writes:
I don’t trust pastors. I want to trust them – but I’ve experienced so much church-related devastation that I doubt if I can ever again believe the best about their motives, preaching or how they conduct their lives.
My trust is utterly broken.
Still, the last thing I want to do is pass that disillusionment on to my children. I don’t want to cheat them of having a solid faith identity simply because Mommy can barely sit through a sermon without having a panic attack.
I know of families who drop their kids at church while they go have coffee or run errands. I can’t do that. Because while I believe that authentic faith is more about inner transformation and relationship than it is about how frequently you attend church – when I did take a break from church, it just wasn’t ideal for my children. They missed me. They begged me to come back.
Going to church is something we’ve always done together as a family. Not only is it part of our faith practice, it’s also inextricably woven into our family identity. We go to church and then we go to lunch as a family. This is what we do.
When I took a break from church, it was a major departure from our established family tradition. It was like letting disillusionment win. I’ve since started going back to church with my family. It’s my way of saying yes. Yes, there are traumatic divisions within our faith, but if we can’t find a way to work through this, who will?
Yes, I am hurt and broken, but I still want to find the good – and yes, I still believe the good exists. Of course, peaceful Sundays will never be easy for me. But maybe that’s the whole point of faith: It’s not all about me. My faith and the faith of my children won’t grow in isolation. We need each other.
Mother Teresa said, “If we have no peace it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other.†Going to church with my family is how I remind myself: We belong to each other. Elizabeth Esther, a mother of five, writes a weekly OC Moms column about faith and motherhood.
(Via The OC Register)
How sad. Â But this story is repeated thousands and thousands of times be people that have felt burned by the church.
How would you respond to Elizabeth?
Todd
28 Responses to “ “I Don’t Trust Pastors”
Leave a Reply
I wonder what happens more, parishoners being burned by pastors or pastors being burned by parishoners?
Good point, Dave. I’m sure it’s a two way street.
Dave is right, both get burned… and there’s a ton of it going on out there. Pastor’s aren’t allowed to be human, and parishioners are burned by a lot of NPD pastors out there who see the church as an oyster to be harvested for their egos. Lots of pastors out there who couldn’t work in a secular job, they couldn’t stand not having the abundance of accolades and entitlements poured out upon them. Many pastors are just plain jealous and desperately want to be the next headline speaker at some stupid conference. They know their church of 200 will never get them there so they use it as a steppingstone to get to the “next level”.
There are countless Elisabeth’s out there… So tragic.
I get the sense that Ms. Esther views church as a ritual (perhaps a good one) rather than a community. When I attended College some profs were better than others and some courses were better than others, but some of the greatest lessons I learned came through experiences with classmates as we did life together. I know many students who attend the same school as their parents not because of a particular professor or even the same major, but because the learning community produces positive outcomes. I can honestly say I have found the same thing (in varying degrees) at churches I have joined. [Simply attending doesn't do it, one has to engage as a participant in the body life of the congregation]
As long as one views the church as a Sunday “performance” done by an “actor” then the potential of a faith community will be missed.
As a pastor, it’s painful to hear how we can cause such struggles for people with our sinful failures. We need to be better shepherds.
But I think Elizabeth (me too!) needs to fall more in love with Jesus. As long as going to church is seen as a family tradition rather than an expression of love for Jesus and His Body (because He first loved us), I don’t think she’s going to make much progress in being healed and restored from past hurts.
I think that’s why Paul didn’t pray we’d find a church that makes us feel good, but rather that we’d know (experientially) the love of God in its fullness: “For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.” (Ephesians 3:14-19)
As a pastor’s kid and as a pastor of 24 years myself, my experience is that the vast majority of pastor’s love the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind and strength and the neighbor as themselves. A few bad apple’s can spoil the whole bunch. Take 20 local evangelical churches in your area, I bet most of them are ordinary pastor’s fulfilling the above verse, filled by an extraordinary savior, Jesus! The gates of hell will not prevail against my church, someone special once said.
I wonder what type of church she attends. How are the pastors selected? Hiring committee, appointment? Is there’s a system or a process that’s dumping “bad” pastors all on the same church? Is she talking about multiple churches over a span of time and distance?
One thing that I know people do when they’re not wild about the pastor is to be in church, is to be really busy doing things (serve in the kid’s church program, hospitality committee, work in the nursery, etc.) so that they minimize time with the pastor on Sundays but the family can still attend together. In an appointment church, you just need to be able to wait the “bad” ones out. Sad, but it happens.
I am a “Lay” Preacher (Lord Anointed Yeoman). Some pastors R narcissistic, drawing attention 2 them from the pulpit rather than lifting up The Lord Jesus Christ for us to see His Glory. Heed John 3:30! On 1 hand we r not to 4sake the assembly, but if the asembly has become more of a Sunday Social Club, how do we grow in Love & Grace? I still believe that Kerygmatic Sermon is Key to Church Growth as a whole & individually. I come from the Greek Orthodox tradition-more mystical than others. Christ is King Creator, the PantoCrator.
What a good round of responses.
I have been burned out on a lot of people and organizations. I am fried from being burned from politicians. And the IRS. And my local grocery stores. And my gas station that I used to get gas for cheaper than the Shell at the corner. And the schools where I teach.
I do not mean to belittle her frustration and pain she is experiencing because I often feel the same toward the churches I have been a part of in the past.
In the end, Elizabeth’s piece reads more like venting from someone who has had a bad day (or a series of days). Sometimes I go through periods like this too. Being a Christian in a fallen world working with fallen people is hard work. I don’t like telling a hurting person to “buck-up!” but Scripture teaches that this world is a war zone, not a play ground.
I think Dave is right in that she might view church as more of a ritual than a relationship.
“I think Dave is right in that she might view church as more of a ritual than a relationship.”
I didn’t take it that way at all, she even says:
“I believe that authentic faith is more about inner transformation and relationship than it is about how frequently you attend church”
She’s just hurting… unfortunately, she doesn’t specifically say what happened.
Dennis, yes she does point to inner transformation and says church is more than frequency of attendance. I guess I don’t really see “frequency of attendance” necessarily as ritual. Not knowing what tradition she is following it is hard to tell the degree of ritual that is being followed.
I do agree that she seems to be hurting but the lack of anything specific about her experience with the pastor(s) makes any real diagnosis difficult. All she really says is that her trust is “utterly broken”.
Not knowing what we are talking about makes me hesitant to conclude that she is right and the pastor is wrong. Did she see the pastor driving angry and aggressive? Did she see him entering a motel room with a prostitute? Is her sister a waitress at Denny’s and this pastor is notorious for being a bad tipper? I’m not trying to be flippant but just to point out how difficult it is with the paucity of information to make an evaluation.
I think government is the only other entity that is so convinced that the people they are to serve are always wrong, are always to blame, and give feedback that is to be ignored.
Oh man Alan, that is amazingly cynical, but after being out of full time “PAID” ministry for a while now, you may be right. Pastors do not listen very well, and they only hear what they want to hear – that which puts them in a positive light. There are many great and humble pastors, but there seems to be an increase lately of some bad apples.
it’s simply this: the bad apples get more attention, and the good apples get forgotten. It is typical of us humans that we remember being wounded with greater clarity that we remember all the quiet, small, faithful things done for us from childhood up.
I agree with Dan, in that disappointment with people happens. There are plenty of corrupt politicians out for themselves, but I haven’t given up on the U.S. I’m not seeking to be a citizen elsewhere, and I still believe that the constitution is an amazing document.
Too many people equate the church with a disappointing pastor. And often times the expectations of that pastor, and his wife and his family, are just a set up for failure. Either a pastor is placed on a pedestal to hero worship or to take pot shots at. Neither is good.
So, disappointment in church leadership means I now have an excuse /reason to abdicate my call to the church? Uh no… but that seems to be acceptable nowadays.
You don’t like the leadership? Then find a church where you can serve and BE the church under leadership that you respect. And dare I say? Quit making excuses and whining around. Then and only then, we might see Christians actually impact the world to the glory of God.
You ask…
“How would you respond to Elizabeth?”
I would agree with Elizabeth about NOT trusting pastors. A good start.
Then I would ask her to do her own research…
to see what “The Bible” has to say about “Pastors.” Oy Vey!!!
I would give her some questions to think about when searching the scriptures.
In the Bible, How many people are… called pastor?
In the Bible, How many people have… the “Title†pastor?
In the Bible, How many people are… ordained as a pastor?
In the Bible, How many people are… hired, or fired, as a pastor?
In the Bible, How many congregations are… “led†by a pastor?
And every pastor I’ve met also has the “title†Reverend.
Can’t seem to find anyone with the “Title†Reverend in the Bible either.
I would then have her read Ezek 14:1-1, about “Idols†of the heart.
Then read Matthew 23:8-10 where Jesus teaches “His Disciples†NOT
to be called Rabbi/Teacher and Master/Leader, for there is “ONE†Master…
the Christ… {{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
Then I would share my experience with pastors – where…
“Titles†become “Idolsâ€
“Pastors†become “Mastersâ€
Pastor/Leader = exercise authority = lord it over = abuse = always
Then I would point her to Jesus as her Shepherd…
Where she can be His sheep, hear His Voice and follow Jesus…
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall “hear My voice; “
and there shall be “ONE†fold, and “ONE†shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold – One Shepherd – One Voice – One Leader
Now Jesus is a Shepherd I can trust.
I felt compelled to reply to your post A. Amos Love. I could not read such such thoughts and ignore them. You say you have never met a “pastor” that didn’t call himself “reverend.” That suggests you have met very few. The title “reverend” often goes with pastors in particular denominations, but not all. I do not use the title “reverend” and never will. I feel only God deserves such a title. However, the words pastor, elder, presbyter, shepherd, and overseer all appear in Scripture. I am a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ – that is what I do. Am I not a minister? I shepherd the flock of Christ. Doesn’t that make me a shepherd? I oversee the church of God. Am I not an overseer? Those are not titles – that is what I do. Those words explain my call, purpose, and work in the Lord. How many pastors have you had connection with? Your words give me the impression that this is less an issue of trust in pastors and more an issue of difference of interpretation of Scripture. Would it not be more prudent (and Christ-like) for all of us to get to know those we differ with and what is in their heart before we declare them untrustworthy?
Chad, I hope this comes across with gentleness, but Amos has a cut and paste response here and a on at least one other blog. They all look nearly the same and come across the same. I pray he heals.
As for Elizabeth, I pray she heals too. Not enough here in the story to give much more.
Chad – Leanard
Thanks for the response, concern, and prayers.
And Leanard, I hope you’re enjoying the “winds of change†of your adventure.
Chad, seems we have many understandings in common. Some a little different.
That’s a notable miracle. Yes?
Much agreement with “to get to know those we differ with.†I would add…
And why we differ. Iron sharpens iron. And the wounds of a friend.
But as far as trusting a human who takes a “Title†NOT in the Bible…
Well… There are many warnings about…
1-False apostles. 2- Many false prophets. 3- False teachers. 4- False brethren.
5- False Christ’s (false anointed ones). 6- deceitful workers. 7- Evil workers.
Why would someone take a “Title†and “Position†NOT found in the Bible?
Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man,
and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
Found out the hard way – Jesus is the only Shepherd I can trust.
Chad – You write…
1 – I do not use the title “reverend†and never will.
I feel only God deserves such a title. …Me too.
…holy and ** reverend** is his name. Psalm 111:9 KJV
Here’s a thought – If someone takes, and uses, the “Title†reverend…
Are they taking “the name of the Lord thy God in vain?â€
2 – I am a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ – that is what I do.
I’m also a minister, a servant of Christ. That’s what I do. 
Am I not a minister? — Yes, you are a minister; if you see yourself as a servant.
Isn’t the word minister in the Bible the same word for servant?
… Me too.
3 – I shepherd the flock of Christ. Doesn’t that make me a shepherd? Hm? NO.
I feed the flock of Christ also. But I’m a sheep and a brother. NOT a shepherd.
I believe that “Title†also is reserved for Jesus alone. The Shepherd of my soul.
And I can’t find anyone with the “Title†shepherd or called shepherd.
All disciples of Christ called themselves “servants.†Why isn’t servant enough?
None called themslves pastor, or shepherd, or clergy, or reverend.
Isn’t the Bible to be our standard?
You might not like the menu But…
Aren’t I feeding you the “Word of God†and pointing you to Jesus?
Does that make me “Your Shepherd?†Or, are we brothers feeding one another?
You can be fed by brand new believers, and the least, can’t you?
4 – I oversee the church of God. Am I not an overseer?
Those are not titles – that is what I do.
Now, believe it or not, I have an opinion about elder/overseers.
Would like your opinion… If someone doesn’t meet the qualifications for
bishop/overseer in 1 Tim 3 and Titus… What should an elder/overseer do?
What should I do if I know an elder/overseer doesn’t meet the qualifications?
Jesus… I’ve returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of my soul…
Amos,
You take my words to mean something they do not. I wear no title in any way. I may pastor people, but I do not call myself Pastor nor do I want people to call me Pastor. I do not even want the title Brother put in front of my name, which is what some minsiters do. I want no title to my name. I introduce myself as Chad and nothing else. I do not call myself a shepherd, but I do shepherd people. A shepherd is one who leads by example. I take no title, nor do I want one. My actions and my heart show who I am, not a title.
My whole point to you was that it was inappropriate to reject Pastors because they wear a title. Many are taught to wear such titles. For most, it does not reveal their heart. Do some wear a title because, for them, it gives them a sense of authority and superiority? Yes. But we cannot know why until we have spent time with them. Does it not show a judgmental heart to say you do not trust pastors because some wear a title when you do not know their heart. I have known too many men in ministry (that often wear titles) that have a heart closer to Jesus’ own heart than other men I have known. I can think one such man right now, who did not call himself Reverend, but used it. He is a man more like Jesus than any other human being I have ever known. Your judgment is unjust.
Leonard
Yes. Sometimes I do cut and paste… Is that a bad thing?
Says who? 
Yes. I ask these questions often and NOT once has anyone answered them.
Almost all the time they have something derogatory to say about me. Hmmm?
Aren’t we to admonish one another? Warn one another? Love one another?
I’m thankful that someone had the courage to challenge my beliefs
about taking the “Title†pastor, about leadership, about making disciples?
Found out I was in bondage to “The Traditions of Men†NOT in the Bible.
So they find fault with me, find fault with cut and paste, find fault with
my having a broken heart suggesting I’m not seeing the scriptures correctly…
They use all sorts of tactics – anything to change the subject…
But they never answer the questions…
They are fairly simple… Maybe you could be the first…
In the Bible, How many people are… called pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, How many people have… the “Title†pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, How many people are… ordained as a pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, How many people are… hired, or fired, as a pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, How many congregations are… “led†by a pastor/reverend?
How about these questions…
In the Bible, Can you name someone… called pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, Can you name someone… with the “Title†pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, Can you name someone… ordained as a pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, Can you name someone… hired, or fired, as a pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, Can you name a congregation… “led†by a pastor/reverend?
Ps 118:8-9
It is better to **trust in the LORD** than to put confidence in man.
It is better to **trust in the LORD** than to put confidence in princes.
Pr 3:5*
**Trust in the LORD** with all thine heart;
and lean not unto thine own understanding.
I’m in agreement with David… The Lord is my Shephered.
Chad – Leonard
Yes. Sometimes I do cut and paste… Is that a bad thing?
Says who? 
Yes. I ask these questions often and NOT once has anyone answered them.
Almost all the time they have something derogatory to say about me. Hmmm?
Aren’t we to admonish one another? Warn one another? Love one another?
I’m thankful that someone had the courage to challenge my beliefs
about taking the “Title†pastor, about leadership, about making disciples?
Found out I was in bondage to “The Traditions of Men†NOT in the Bible.
So they find fault with me, find fault with cut and paste, find fault with
my having a broken heart suggesting I’m not seeing the scriptures correctly…
They use all sorts of tactics – anything to change the subject…
But they never answer the questions…
They are fairly simple… Maybe Chad or Leonard could be the first…
In the Bible, How many people are… called pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, How many people have… the “Title†pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, How many people are… ordained as a pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, How many people are… hired, or fired, as a pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, How many congregations are… “led†by a pastor/reverend?
How about these questions…
In the Bible, Can you name someone… called pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, Can you name someone… with the “Title†pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, Can you name someone… ordained as a pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, Can you name someone… hired, or fired, as a pastor/reverend?
In the Bible, Can you name a congregation… “led†by a pastor/reverend?
Ps 118:8-9
It is better to **trust in the LORD** than to put confidence in man.
It is better to **trust in the LORD** than to put confidence in princes.
Pr 3:5*
**Trust in the LORD** with all thine heart;
and lean not unto thine own understanding.
I’m in agreement with David… The Lord is my Shephered.
Chad
Sorry for the misunderstanding. As I stated, there is lot’s that you say where I’m in agreement with you. I really like your stance about “Titles.†And NOT using them.
I’m also in agreement with knowing those who have the “Title†pastor and really love Jesus and have a loving heart. And I’m also in agreement that many take the “Title†because along with the “Title†comes “authority and superiority.â€
BUT, just because they are nice guys who love Jesus does that negate the fact: there is NO one, in the Bible, with the “Title†pastor, there is NO one, in the Bible, hired or fired, as a “Pastor/Leader, there is NOT one congregation, in the Bible, “Led†by a “Pastor/leader?â€
And by their example, teach others it’s okay to be a “Pastor/Leader.†A “Title†and “Position†NOT found in the Bible. And thus lead young believers astray?
Jer 50:6
My people hath been *lost sheep:*
*their shepherds* have caused them to *go astray…*
You write…
“My whole point to you was that it was inappropriate to reject Pastors because they wear a title.â€
I don’t reject pastors because of the “Title.†In fact I don’t reject pastors at all. I work with pastors who can’t do it anymore. And are burnt out. Trying to please the denominational leaders, please the congregation, and the congregational leaders, And please their family.
That’s tough – serving so many masters – yes?
Did you know that 80% of pastors say the ministry has been harmful to their families. 80% of wives wish there pastor/husband would choose a different profession. 70% battle depression.
70% don’t have a close friend. And this list goes on… and on… and…
I don’t reject pastors… I warn them, admonish them. Your “Title†and “Position†is NOT in the Bible. And, if you assume the position of an “Elder/Overseer†there are some tough qualifications to meet in 1 Tim 3 and Titus. And if you don’t meet “ALL†the qualifications then you can remove yourself and be a good example to the flock.
When they understand they were taught a lie, and believed a lie, that they were a special clergy class… a leader class… a teacher class… an overseer…
When they know the “Truth†the “Truth†sets them free to heal.
I warn them because they assume the “Title†that belongs to Jesus, â€Shepherd.â€
And cause folks to look to a man as their shepherd and NOT look to Jesus.
And I warn believers, and encourage them to check the Bible to see if “**Today’s** “Pastor/Leader†can be found in the Bible. And I warn believers if someone says they are an “Elder/Overseer†they have every right to check to see if they meet the qualifications for “Elder/Overseer.†It’s the right of every believer to “knowâ€those who labor among you.
I believe that Jesus is our standard and example…
Jesus humbled Himself, made Himself of NO reputation,
and took on the form of a servant.
I’m Blest… I’ve returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of My soul… Jesus…
You said here that you do not reject pastors, yet in your first post you say you “agree with Elizabeth about NOT trusting Pastors” and then regailed everyone with your opinion about the use of titles. Saying you do not trust pastors is a rejection of pastors. Maybe this was not your intent and you simply chose your words poorly, but at least admit to the impression your words gave.
Interestingly, Paul called himself an Apostle. Jesus had too many titles to address here. Most of those who wear the “titles” that you refer to, wear them only because it explains what they do rather than wearing them to declare their value, authority, or superiority. It seems to me that you are focusing on semantics and missing who these men are. They are not untrustworthy simply because they use a title to help identify what they do. It is obvious that you take this issue personally. I do not negate your feelings on this subject, but I do take issue with your admitted lack of trust for these men simply because of a title. I will let these words by my last on the issue. I do thank you for your work with ministers. Your kind of work brings healing and great benefit. I know I appreciate it.
Chad
In my experience… “Titles†are very dangerous.
Dangerous for both the “Pastor/Leader†and those who honor that “Title.â€
“Titles†take the focus off Jesus and put the focus on a mere fallible human.
Let me not, I pray you, accept any man’s person,
neither let me give *flattering titles* unto man.
For I know not to give *flattering titles;*
in so doing my maker would soon take me away.
Job 32:21 KJV
In my experience… “Titles†become “Idols.†Ezek 14:1-7
And cause walls of division and seperation?
Don’t “Titles†say, I am, you’re not?
Don’t “Titles†say, we are, they’re not?
Baptist, Lutheran, Assemblies of God; — I am, you’re not?
Reformed, Evangelical, Charismatic; — I am, you’re not?
Clergy – Laity;— I am, you’re not?
Leaders – Followers;— I am, you’re not?
Pastors – Sheep; — I am, you’re not?
Jesus said we are “ALL†brethren. Mat 23:8 KJV
Just try an experiment.
Inform all those nice guys you know who have the “Title†pastor that it’s NOT in the Bible and their “Title†is an “Idol.†See what happens. Ever try telling a Senior Pastor that? Ouch!!!
If someone says their “title†is not an “idol,†just ask them, well if it’s not an “idol†then just get rid of it, lay your “title†down. Lay down your – Power – Profit – Prestige – Honor – Glory – Reputation – Recognition – that comes with the “Title.â€
Walk away from your reputation, become a brethren, become “a servant of Christ,†and become “a disciple of Christ.†Jesus said in order to be *My Disciple* you must forsake “ALL.â€
And didn’t Jesus make himself of no reputation,
and take upon himself the form of a servant
and humble himself? Php 2:7-8
Don’t “titles†make a reputation whether you want it or not?
Didn’t Jesus say I receive not honor from men?
Don’t “titles†create honor whether you want it or not?
Did anyone have the “Title†pastor in the Bible? Hmmm?
You’ve changed my mind – I do “reject†pastors – And what they stand for.
Seperation and division.
And I don’t “trust†pastors – they lead people astray.
Jer 50:6
My people hath been *lost sheep:*
*their shepherds* have caused them to *go astray…*
Peace…
What about untrustworthy church members?? I guarantee you I (as a pastor) have been screwed, lied to, lied about, manipulated, gossiped about, dragged through the mud, and HURT by more church members than you have by pastors.
You don’t trust pastors? Ha! I don’t trust church members…
I hate preachers. They use the pulpit to personally attack people who don’t agree with their bad behavior. I will never trust another preacher. I wish the lord would send a lightning bolt and strike them all.