You remember Josh McDowell? Â Well, at last week’s Christian Retail Show, McDowell told attendees this:
“The Internet has given atheists, agnostics, skeptics, the people who like to destroy everything that you and I believe, the almost equal access to your kids as your youth pastor and you have… whether you like it or not… Now here is the problem. Going all the way back, when Al Gore invented the Internet [he said jokingly], I made the statement off and on for 10-11 years that the abundance of knowledge, the abundance of information, will not lead to certainty; it will lead to pervasive skepticism. And, folks, that’s exactly what has happened. It’s like this. How do you really know, there is so much out there… This abundance [of information] has led to skepticism. And then the Internet has leveled the playing field [giving equal access to skeptics].â€
Insert my take here:
1. Â Josh wants to let us know that he was right all along. Â That always stings a little when someone tries to tell me “I told you so”.
2. Â So the increase of information has led to skepticism? Â Seems to me that’s only one side of the coin. Â The internet has also been a tremendous help to Christians. Â Look at all the ministry that goes on online these days. Â Rather, it seems to me that it’s a matter of the glass half full or half empty. Â Sure, the internet has made things like atheism, pornography, and any number of bad things more accessible (even terrorist activity)… but it has also been a great help to education, positive information, and yes… the Church.
It can’t all be bad. Â Josh.org (how in the world did he get THAT domain name?) is up and running for business.
Maybe I’m getting old. Â Maybe I’m just really cynical. Â But Christians always dwelling on the negative things or how horrible the world is is a little tiring for me.
Instead of just telling us what a huge problem something is… give some solutions. Â Come on folks… let’s make it happen. Â If the internet is the biggest threat out there, let’s mobilize and do something about it (other than trying to get atheists banned from the internet).
Stirring up the base just stirs up the base. Â It doesn’t create or do anything but get lots of amens.
Thoughts?
Todd
Amen!!
I couldn’t agree more, Todd. More solutions, less “the sky is falling.” A disappointing example was CT Views reflections on the Crystal Cathedral’s bankruptcy.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/january/15.59.html
Todd, thanks for being a contrasting voice to the vocal minority.
What’s it take to become a sublime expounder of prose like yuroslef?
For a man who has prized rational thought in the past, this statement is illogical at best and at worst misleading. If the claims of Christianity, which Josh stated better than most, can not stand against all the claims made on the Internet then it does not deserve our fidelity. I happen to believe that the claims of Christianity does in fact stand as the strongest signal of truth against the noise of the Internet.
What the Internet has done has disintermediated truth-telling from the institutions of power which he other others of his generation spent their life building. It is destoying the influence and power of denominations and even “pastors” or speakers like himself.
The cynic in me feels like this is what lies behind his statement — not that Christianity is under-threat but he himself is under-threat by the likes of you and hoards of others like you.
People don’t give to solutions or positive comments about the internet.
And you thought YOU were cynical.
But you know… that is exactly right.
I feel like I’m caught in the middle here.
People older than me “stir the base” by statements like this. The world is so much more corrupt than 10 years ago. Everything is doom and gloom. And here’s what the Bible says about that. There… see, it said this would happen. Let’s pass the plate and go home.
People younger than me are saying… hold up! If it’s that bad, let’s do something about it. Give some solutions. Let’s roll up our sleeves and tackle this thing.
I think approach #1 is a great way to motivate older folks. But it stinks at motivating anyone younger than me.
Make sense?
Todd
I get it. My question when I hear this line of reasoning is this: “If things have gotten so bad under your watch, where has all the money gone… and why should we give you more?”
People generally don’t like it when I ask that.
You’re right. You’re WAY more cynical than me.
But really… I think you’re exactly right.
Todd
This is so true. When I saw the title of your blog, I was like: “Here we go, another naysayer just trying to tear something down.” Turns out I was right and I was wrong. You were not the naysayer, Josh McDowell was. I never heard his comment before reading it here. I hear things to that effect a lot from closed-minded, and honestly, fearful Christians. It is very refreshing to read that I am not the only one who sees the extreme value in the internet as well. We can bring such positive change through online ministry and advance the kingdom in major ways. So much so that this pursuit has become my passion, as Director of Torch Online for my church, TorchChurch.tv. Thank you for the great thoughts in your blog.
We do have both Babel and Pentecost in the Bible.
At Babel a common connective language augmented man’s ability to sin against God. At Pentecost the Holy Spirit used multiple languages as a means to spread a common Gospel.
The internet will allow the unrepentant to organize and spread skepticism at the same time it will allow the church to come together and evangelize with new effective tools.
well said!
i have watched both george carlin and mark driscoll on youtube.
i have read both christian and non-christian blogs.
they’re all out there! and our kids know it’s all out there – both Babel and Pentecost – and more of it!
and if we don’t know what’s ‘out there’, who’s gonna help the next generation navigate through that spiritual minefield?
Mr. McDowell, when all the “atheists, agnostics, skeptics, the people who like to destroy everything that you and I believe” were hawking their wares in the universities and campuses of your days did you not confront them with your razor-sharp mind and biblical convictions?
and now that they have taken to the ‘Net, are you saying we abandon our kids to them just when they are most vulnerable? sacrificing them, as it were, to the altars of Babel?
i say, let Pentecost come to the ‘Net!
Hey Todd,
gotta tell ya, i usually enjoy reading your Monday morning insights… however not when its at the expense of another brother. Seriously, what do you gain by cuttin up Josh? It sounded more like you had a “reaction” not an “insight”! There’s enough negativity aimed at the church from the world, lets not join in. You could’ve made your point without throwing Josh under the bus. Even the opening “you remember josh mcdowell” was pretty condescending and I would think “beneath you”… you owe him an apology
Hey Tony…
Wasn’t attempting to throw Josh under the bus. At all.
The ‘remember Josh McDowell’ comment was made simply because I haven’t heard anything from Josh in literally years. Maybe he’s just not in my circles… but I figured he had retired long ago.
Here’s my take on when I write on something and when I don’t. If the statement is made publicly, then I think it’s ok to respond publicly. In re-reading my comments, I don’t think I was unkind. I think I disagreed, respectfully.
For the record, I’m sure Josh is a great guy. And he’s done great things for Jesus. For those, he should be commended. But I think his generational bias is becoming more and more evident when he makes statements like these.
Todd
Hey Todd,
and hey, its Monday… all pastors are a little extra sensitive on Mondays 
be blessed!
I hear ya, I think we all (unfortunately) have our bias. Don’t know Josh personally. Certainly have benefitted from his ministry, just don’t feel that quoting a small paragraph not totally in context is the best way of making a point. Totally agreed with your conclusion, by the way! Internet has been more helpful than hurtful… just thought you could have presented it in a way that was a bit more consistent with what I have seen you write in the past. We’d both agree there’s enough heretics out there we can point a finger at and raise suspicion to, Josh isn’t one of them. … just my opinion
Thank you for your response to his ‘stirring of the base.’. You are right on, Todd.
Todd,
Thanks for posting the link to the entire news report from Christian Post. Were you there in person to hear Josh’s comments? If not you are forming an opinion based on a news report. If you read all the report you will note that Josh did make some powerful suggestions to counter any negative affects of the internet. You take one quote and then make your evaluations. I don’t think he was concluding that the internet is evil of itself, just warning all concerned with reaching people what we are “up against”. Let’s not be either “Chicken Little”, or the Ostrich with his head in the sand!
Point taken…
Perhaps Josh’s words mean more in an age when the bulk of the church is preaching weak, sissified sermons. In that context, he’s right: the internet and skepticism will win. If the church hopes to win this fight, actually, it’s a war, then it better step up and get back to the Word.
Todd,
I’m a fan but I find your statement of being cynical ironic. Perhaps the concern of Josh is information access has created a cynicism and skepticism that is having a negative effect on seekers and believers alike. Last night I was reading the Huffington Post religion section online and the articles were very disturbing and a frontal attack toward historical Christianity. I’m not sure Josh is far off.
I agree with you and many of the preceding comments. God and His truth are so much more powerful than all the lies out there, on the Internet and elsewhere. Nothing will satisfy a hungry heart except for Jesus!
The problem with this world is satan and his associates – NOT the internet. Thanks for your insight Todd. I agree with your viewpoint and am glad that you are willing to take the other side of Josh’s argument.
Todd, I agree with you completely. I love Josh McDowell and his ministry but the greatest threat to Christianity is a bad Christian witness.
Decades ago, TV was vilified as a threat to Christianity. How many ministries used TV as a means of genuine outreach (I’m excluding hucksters and frauds)?
Jesus is Lord no matter how vast the marketplace of opposing ideas is. We can complain or we can find ways to use the internet for the kingdom.
Oh wait! Many ministries are already doing that, lol.
The Internet is a Christian’s greatest threat?? Thanks for the information. And here I always thought that Satan was a Christian’s greatest threat. Ephesians 6:10-18 tells us “we struggle not against flesh and blood…” The Internet is merely a tool of humans.
Anti-Christian information has always been out there and Satan has always found a way to get his message across. I am sure at one point television was a threat and teaching girls to read was a threat and Pony Express was threat and the Roman road system was a threat. All these were ways to get information disseminated faster and to a wider audience, just like the Internet today.
The Internet is merely a tool. It can be used in support of good or in support of evil. The world in which we live and witness is constantly changing. Although the good news of the Gospel does not change, how we get that message across in order to reach people for Christ does change with the times.
So, Todd, I’m with you. Let’s stop complaining about the fact that things aren’t the way they used to be and put on the Whole Armor of God and fight the battle set before us not the battles that have already been fought. We need to show people that the Gospel has meaning today and that our never-changing God is still relevant in the Information Age.
I hate to say this about someone I’ve always respected as a Christian leader – but, Josh, stop acting OLD! Bemoaning how things are today, as opposed to the way things used to be back in the day, is acting OLD. Focusing on the negative is curmudgeon-y. It’s not attractive. Oh wait, I just focused on the negative…hmmm. Anyway, I like the way Josh used to be…hmmm.
I fully agree that the internet is a huge threat to Christians. (Though I doubt it’s the biggest.)
But, I think that for a totally different reason. Probably, my perspective is just related to my experience and anecdotal evidence, but here goes:
The internet is a huge danger, not because of the usual suspects (porn, atheism, etc) but because of distraction. Am I the only one that finds myself browsing youtube when I could be seeking the Lord? I doubt it. In fact, many young Christians I know aren’t growing as they should, and my diagnosis as a pastor would be that they aren’t taken up with evil so much as they are just taken up with “stuff.” They spend much more time with their keyboard than their Bible.
I went through a phase where I found myself just sorting and consuming information, INSTEAD of doing anything about it. I knew tons of stuff, but was doing less than I knew. So, I unsubscribed from tons of newsletters, stopped reading so many journals and articles, and went on an “information fast” for a period of time. It really cleared the air for me spiritually.
Then, I have managed to slowly build it back up, more carefully this time. Thus, I am here commenting.
Good words, Todd. I agree. The internet, looked at properly, is a wonderful mission field- an opportunity to share good news.
Conversation can be a threat, or an opportunity. Since we chose to teach our kids how to swim in their culture instead of reacting to it through the lens of our own culture, we have found that our children are very able to take our foundation and reapply it to their situations.
The internet has allowed my children to understand different points of view from an early age. They often give me pointers on discerning someone’s bias, and they locate truth among the rabble. They are also finding their voice a good 10 years earlier than my generation.
Josh does offer a solution. Just go to his website and purchase his materials. I have heard him speak the last several years and it’s the same formula.
- He tells us that he has been telling us this for years.
- He paints a doom and gloom picture
- He mocks pastors and other inept leaders who have incomplete solutions
- He then gives his solution which is contained in his materials that he sells.
I’m sorry if I’m jaded. I’ve heard the things he has said lately and it grieves me. This does not serve the cause of Christ well.
As others said, the Internet is just another tool that can be used for good and for bad. The printing press was a phenomenal invention that allowed mass distribution of God’s Word, but has also been used to print very destructive things including pornography.
Printed books have been an on-going influence on us far longer than the Internet has, yet we don’t condemn it.
I agree the answer is using the tools we are given in creative and effective ways to reach more people with the Gospel instead of rallying against them.
Technology for me personally has given me the ability to carry a Bible on my phone, fully equipped with many useful resources at my immediate disposal, allowing me to effectively reach people in the limited time-frame we’re given in our fast-paced society.
I struggle to see how such an invaluable resouce can be deemed as evil in itself. It’s all a matter of how one uses it.
So, what about that “gates of hell shall not prevail against it” comment by Jesus? Seems to me, atheists and the internet fall into that category. Maybe, the problem is not them at all, but us.
What would it take to make pornography illegal?
following josh’s reasoning…a case could be made, equally, against the printing press and movable type…just saying.
Where’s the “like” button?
“It’s a great gettin’ up mornin’ (Josh),
Fare Thee Well, Fare Thee Well…”
I’m just a 62-year-old pastor sensing a bit of ageism here today. If Josh was 30 years younger, maybe there would be more validity to his words!
The rabble-rousing that we read/listen to does no good. It only fans the flames of.division and hatred that are tearing our society apart. I seem to recall that the internet was invented by some researchers doing work for the DOD at colleges in the 70′s, no Al Gore.
It looks like I am in a small minority, but I agree with Josh. People (including teenagers) are not rational thinking machines. People forget that pornography is exactly like a drug in that it modifies the brain and produces addictive behavior. This addictive behavior affects people who believe this behavior is wrong (people with a Christian upbringing) by making them feel terribly guilty and longing for a way out between the tension between their beliefs and actions. The choices are to try to overcome addictive behavior (very difficult) or to change what you believe. Again, people are not rational thinking machines; they don’t realize that they are choosing to change their beliefs so as to reduce their internal pain, but this is exactly what they are doing.
This kind of internal conflict is not new and didn’t just come about with the Internet, but the “just a click away” nature of the Internet makes it ridiculously easy to fall. We don’t invite drug dealers into our houses; how is this any different?
Barna and others have given recent statistics showing that this *current* young generation is falling off a cliff with regards to their faith. And all you have to do is look at Europe to see where we are headed.
We ignore verses such as Matt. 5:29-30, Matt. 18:8-9, I Cor. 6:18, and 2 Tim. 2:22 at our own peril.
And don’t forget Matt. 18:6 (the “millstone” verse) – we *will* have to give an account.
I can’t understand it. I’m really developing an appreciation, maybe even a love, for cynicism and cynics.
The internet is, and always has been, the playground of atheists and skeptics – it’s where they form community in the absence of a physical church community. I reckon real world community is going to trump online community every time, and the number of people using the Internet to read atheist blogs as a percentage of the overall population is so small as to be negligible.
The internet is a tool for improving real world community, and the distribution of information, it has great benefit for the church at that point. But relationships are where people are convinced about the truth of Christianity anyway, generally speaking… so I’m not sure the fear mongering is warranted.
I HOPE what Josh means is that the problem with the Internet is that no one is monitoring it. Anyone can put anything on the Internet and a lot of people accept it was truth just because it’s in print. There was a time when parents knew what their children and teenagers were reading and watching and could offer a correction or prespective, but the Internet is open access to overone on any topic without any gatekeeping. That results in a lot of falsehood being out there which is often accepted by the uninformed and undereducated “hook, line, and sinker.” From THAT perspective, the Internet is indeed a dangerous thing. EVERYONE needs to be taught to read EVERYTHING on the Internet with a grain of salt and healthy dose of skepticism unless you know and trust the source.
Josh is right. He usually is.
Amereservant’s observation is right. McDowell’s prognosis (widely and easily accessed information is dangerous)and perscription (“I am qualified to tell you what to do about this. Just use my materials.”) is nearly as old as Christianity itself. There was a dark period in church history when only approved churchmen were permitted to read and interpret for the masses. The medium was different (printed Bibles and religious materials), but the argument was the same: “People will be confused and misled. People will use the printed [and disemenated] word to selfish and ungodly ends and will harm the church. It is our duty to keep the printed page from the uniformed and the uneducated.”
My adult years coincide with the Civil Rights movement. Literacy and access to information was limited and guarded by those who believed themselves superior to others in some way.
Even with the acknowledged dangers, junk, confusing and absolutely wrong ideas lerking in the hearts and minds of people, the ability to access and understand information is critical to a free society. Just ask those who have recently overthrown dictatorships in the Middle East. The church can embrase the tool (Internet and other electronic medium) as another God-give means of sharing the Word or it can hide in fear of its misuse…just like the crowd that burned their television sets in the front yard of the church because it was “a tool of the devil” (western Kentucky…honest to God).
We’ve been writing about the POSSIBILITIES for the gospel via the Internet and reaching the WORLD for CHRIST for over a year now. The book you need to get: @stickyJesus: how to live out your faith online. Check out our site at http://www.stickyJesus.com. We address so much of McDowell’s points—and offer solutions.
Many have taken up this digital evangelism torch.
As usual, the Christian community is always 3-5 years behind the relevancy curve. But hey, better late than never.
Let me go on record as in agreement with you, Todd. Let’s use the tools for heaven’s sake (literally). John 1 says the darkness will never be able to overcome the light.
NO LEAVE ALL THE UNBELIEVERS ALONE!!! One may just get saved, if they see just the right scripture, of the living Word of God, Christ Jesus!!!