Justin Bieber on Church Attendance
Posted by Todd Rhoades in Current Events on Jan 12th, 2012 | 26 commentsHere’s what the Bieb thinks about going to church:
“A lot of people who are religious, I think they get lost. They go to church just to go to church. I’m not trying to disrespect them . but for me, I focus more on praying and talking to Him. I don’t have to go to church.”
To tell the truth, this isn’t a real surprise coming from someone his age, is it?
Do 17 year olds see the value in church?
And if they don’t, what can we do to fix it?
Is the solution in trying to get them to conform to our Sunday morning 11:00 format? Or is there a better solution for the church than the Sunday AM gathering that our parents and grandparents flocked to?
What do YOU think?
26 Responses to “ “Justin Bieber on Church Attendance”
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But you do have to go to church. You have to experience God in community IN ADDITION to in solitude. Experiencing himself where it’s ONLY you and him is only experiencing yourself more often than not.
Sorry, but this kind of attitude, in my experience, usually lines up with a desire to make your own rule of life up as you go along. Who is God in that scenario, really…?
Okay, Peter, but here’s my question. Say you go to a typical church. This means you show up at 9AM for some sort of Sunday School class. If you’re lucky, there might be some discussion, otherwise it’s usually a teacher giving a lesson. You might have a break and then you go into the service around 10:30 AM. You sit in a pew for an hour and listen to the preacher. And then you’re done, and you might talk to your friends for a bit, and then you go home.
How is that “community”? I understand encouraging people to go to small groups or home churches because their formats require much more interaction. But just church at face value? There is no community for me just showing up on Sunday.
“experience God in community”
Also, how do you know that my community that is the best for me spiritually isn’t the group of friends I see multiple times a week? Or my coworkers who are also of the faith who I see every day? Just because we’re not in a certain building means we aren’t actually a “community”? Learning about God is not isolated to a building or isolated to the certain people you see in a certain building.
Hate to say it, but I’m with Bieber.
Genius of the “&”. You CAN have community in a church environment, and in fact I’ve been in churches like you describe that community galore. I prefer the more “contemporary” approach, however.
The New Testament is clear in its exhortation for us “not to give up meeting together”.
Peter, I agree w/ you that we’re supposed to go to church in some form by the direction of the Bible, however, if that exhortation didn’t exist then it’d be hard to justify the time spent there for a lot of us. I think this kid is referring to the fact that it can seem like a waste of time, listening to a guy that you largely don’t agree with, or are bored by, and carrying on w/ the mechanics of a service.
Fact is, >75% of pastors love having the stage as much as this guy does, possessing considerable egos of their own.
For many, church feels broken. I don’t I say that as a consumer, but as one who has long participated and lead, though not in a salaried position. How do we change it?
Here’s one way to change things! http://www.amazon.com/Verge-Journey-Apostolic-Future-Exponential/dp/0310331005
This is sad to me. I have wondered if he could even go to church because of all the people that would worship…er…flock to him. It’d be hard for middle school girls to focus on Jesus when they are sitting next to the Bieber.
He is so dreamy…
Thankfully Bieber madness is already losing its hold on my daughter.
This is a common belief of young people who consider themselves to be Christians. As I talk with them about their beliefs in not going to church they make some good points. For this reason I have gone back and forth between who the problem lies with. Is it the young person for not acknowledging the role of church in their life and their responsibility to the church? Could it be that the church is at fault by being irrelevant.
I am think the answer could be somewhere in between. I do think as a churches and pastors we need to ask what church really is. It sounds to me like he is rejecting the worship service. Most pastors would be happy if people just attend the service and do some light volunteer work to keep the service going. Could it be that church involvement could be something outside of preaching and singing on Sunday morning. If so how do we engage a younger generation of people that call themselves Christian but reject our Sunday services.
What about this statement:
“A lot of people who are religious, I think they get lost. They don’t go to church just to not go to church. I’m not trying to disrespect them . but for me, I focus more on serving and loving others as expression of my faith in Jesus, not just keeping my relationship with Jesus as “me only” thing. I don’t have to avoid going to church.”
The problem is what the Beibs is expressing is consumer spirituality.
Deanna, that could be someone’s experience, but you’re talking about consuming only. You can do the same things you said but participate in Sunday school (never gone to one, don’t have one at our church), serve on a team, interact with your fellow volunteers, meet and greet those around you, specifically seek out new folks to help them become part of the church, hear from God in the sermon, speak to him in music, etc.
The local church, and I say this as a pastor, is responsible for providing opportunities for community and interaction, but that isn’t the end-all goal of every meeting. Sometimes it’s to come together to hear God and worship him corporately.
You sit at home and pray, but how do you evangelize? How do you make disciples? How do you serve? How do you practice communion? How do you seek and save the lost?
I’m several years older than Justin Bieber, but I’m still probably included in his generation. I agree with him on this one, which is why I am not currently going anywhere. I understand that this issue greatly depends on your community, denomination, specific church, format, etc.
But my experience of church was that it was very fake. I had to have all my sh*t together and couldn’t admit any weakness. (Real Christians don’t struggle with things, after all.) Also, the people that have been the most real, the most, the people who have caused me the most spiritual growth, the people who have challenged me the most, taught me the most, and impacted me the most have been OUTSIDE the church.
I could admit my flaws to them and see what they said. I could ask questions and get their perspective. I was free to learn from them. They challenged my convictions and helped me see the flaws in them so I could make them stronger for the right reasons.
So, when church gets all “You have to be here to grow!” I laugh.
I need a place that’s safe. I need a place that is open. That’s honest. That I don’t have to pretend to be a Good Christian but can be a real human who is trying to figure out this life with other people.
I never got that at church, and I think you’ll find that’s the case with much of my generation. Until we can be real people, address real issues, really talk to each other… You probably won’t see me or my cohorts.
Deanna, I am with you. I am a bit older at 40 and have decided to leave the institution we in America call ‘church’. We have to get to the point where we truly believe “I am the church”. Where we don’t go to church, we are the church. Jesus didn’t tell us to gather together and sing songs and listen to someone tell us what the Bible says…he called us into community, authentic relationships, service to the world and love for all humanity. To truly LOVE is something the ‘church’ is missing badly.
Kim,
Jesus says in one place that there is a time for telling something to the church (Matt. 18:15) To whom do you think he is referring? Should the one sinned against tell the universal church? And then how does “the church” tell the sinning brother anything to which he should listen (again, in Matt. 18:15)?
And Paul tells the Corinthian church this:
1 Corinthians 5:4–5 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
and then
1 Corinthians 5:12–13 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
See how he expects the church to assemble and meet, and to even pass judgments? What does “those inside the church” mean?
Do you think Jesus approves of the structure of the church in the book of Acts? Throughout that book, we are told that there were local churches in various cities that met together regularly (Acts 13:1-3; 14:27; 15:3, 22; and many others). We are told that they had elders and pastors to oversee them, and to whom they submitted themselves.
Acts 14:23 And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.
Acts 15:4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them.
Acts 16:4–5 As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem. 5 So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and they increased in numbers daily.
Acts 20:17 Now from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church to come to him.
Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
So there were churches who met, greeted men, heard from Paul, etc. How does that fit with “I am the church?” How can the Holy-Spirit-made overseers care for you, which God obtained with his own blood?
How can the elders shepherd and oversee the flock if they aren’t ever together? How can the younger people submit to the elders? (1 Peter 5).
Read Hebrews 13:7 and 17. How can you obey God’s command to imitate, obey, and submit to your leaders?
How does all this fit with your view that Jesus didn’t call us to gather together and listen to someone tell us what the Bible says?
Jerry
Well said Jerry, I appreciate your desire to bring the Bible squarely into this discussion.
It’s not surprising to me that the church detractors in this post aren’t willing to acknowledge or deal with the Scriptures you put up. This is typical with this discussion.
It seems to me that the people in the anti-institutional church crowd rarely deal with the Bible and prefer to make broad generalizations Jesus and love, and seem to ignore the obvious role of the local church that Jesus and the NT leaders saw for the life of the Christian.
Unfortunately, when someone brings up relevant Scriptures as you did, people immediately like to peg it as “proof-texting” and dismiss it. We should not forget how Paul admired and called the Bereans of Acts 17 noble because they passionately searched the Scriptures.
As others have said, of course the church is flawed and imperfect, but a Christians choosing not to participate in the life of their local church would have been ludicrous to Jesus and the early Christians.
Read your Bible’s people. The church, warts and all, is God’s chosen vessel for building His Kingdom in this world. This fact does not change from generation to generation. People of all generations need to learn to love it and be a part of it.
Jerry and Steve: Good word. Thanks for affirming scripture-based theology over personal philosophy. That’s one my generation (millennials) seem to neglect. I wonder how much we must miss out on by maintaining a rogue attitude towards being under the authority of God’s Word on these matters.
To me the church is the bride of Christ and should not be ignored. I realize there are a lot of churches that have issues but it does not mean they are all like that. (although none will be perfect)
Fortunately at the church I attend our pastor has often mentioned that our church is more of a hospital, here to take people as they are, and we will not become a country club, a place to be seen and be social.
I am in the worship band so I often get to hear some stories and many are from people that have had no experience or more likely a bad experience at another church.
This past Sunday we actually had our highest attended day of over 750 people and we have been a church just over two years. All I can say is it is a God thing because the staff and us in the band are jacked up, imperfect people but we are honest, open and realized nobody has it all together aside from Jesus and we try to reach out and share that.
I guess I have a better outlook because I have a church home that is not a masquerade and instead does a lot of outreach and meeting of needs. But I want to share that better outlook and say there are good churches out there, still not perfect but still ones that try to get it right and follow a God given vision so don’t completely give up on it.
Lets not forget the theme coming from those who are opposed to the “Institutional church” (A weird name, since there is no way to have a church without it being institutionalized, don’t confuse the universal and local church) is a me centered point of view. What is in it for me? What do I need? How am I being benefited? Do I feel comfortable?
That isn’t understanding the Bible, its total and complete sinful selfishness. What is in it for me? It isn’t about me, or you, its about realizing that you aren’t important, and Christ is. You gather not for your own benefit but to give glory and honor to Christ. Having a “Bible Study” in a coffee shop instead of going and being plugged into a local church is not the same. Real Christians are involved in a local church, with all its flaws and failures and outdated methods on occasion, its still the call of Christians to gather in community together. A Small group or bible study is not that.
I visited a church once that had no problems or issues of any kind… It was cool. I joined and totally messed the whole thing up… oh well…
Jacob, I understand what you are saying. I believe there is a great need to make sure that your “issues” with a church are not just measly excuses to skip out. However, when someone does have genuine issues and are hurt and leave as a result, too many people act like they are just making it up.
If everyone ignored problems or people who raised issues or left and just labelled them as “selfish”, the church would never have the opportunity to grow.
Messages like this from people like Justin Bieber. Instead of just saying “Well, he’s just selfish”, I think more people should ask WHY he and others in his generation feel that way.
Some people can definitely be flippant, but there is something much deeper going on here.
The church should be a reflection of the One being worshiped – Jesus, the Christ! If we (the church) minister to the needs of the people, i.e. spiritual needs, then we are doing as the Lord has commanded. If we meet the physical needs of the poor and downtrodden, we have done it to Jesus himself. If we seek to meet the wants (personal preferences)of church people, we risk turning away from the gospel and start trying to please people instead of God, and then we don’t meet the need of people. What people need most is a relationship with Christ, not a particular color carpet, the right songs or style of music. Our job as a church is to extend the grace that has so freely been shown to us, and in so doing, draw people to Jesus by His love in us.
Deanna, and others who have decided church is not for you, I pray you will never let the imperfection of some in the church keep you from the perfection of God. I pray that you will find an authentic church who cares about you enough to allow you to be weak and imperfect so Jesus may be all in all in your lives. You are stronger in community. If you take an ember out of the fire, it quickly dies, but put it together with others and a great warmth is spread all around.
The Church does not exist for you.
I’ll say it again: The Church does not exist for you.
You may benefit from the Church, but it exists for Christ.
The Church is the Body of Christ, it is His Bride. He is redeeming it and making it beautiful. He has died for her. He has poured out His blood for her. Jesus will defend her, Jesus will fight for her, Jesus will love her, and Jesus will absolutely under no condition ever ever forsake her. The Church is precious to Jesus. God is calling a PEOPLE to be his special possession.
If I don’t view it the same way I am out of touch with Jesus’ heart. If I am quick to find reasons to bring division, to separate myself from, or view her with human eyes rather than Gospel vision I need to repent.
Every local church is jacked up. Every one. Mine. Yours. You won’t find a perfect local church. Not going to happen. I have found God uses messed up churches, messed up church folks, and broken systems to refine my affection for Him. God uses uncomfortable people to show me the weak affections of my heart, if I love Christ I will love anyone connected to Him, because I love them in and through Christ. Christ is purging me of loving only with natural affections, choosing to love only those who are like me.
If you genuinely believe a church is in the wrong, and it isn’t a Gospel related problem (don’t try to rehab a Mosque, Synagogue, Mormon Temple, or JW Kingdom Hall) see if perhaps God is seeking to use you to bring reformation. If they are genuine Christians, they are God’s kids, He loves them, why wouldn’t he care enough to send you and empower you to bring them closer to his heart?
What do I think ? He’s an ignorant teen who made a stupid comment and is woefully ignorant of the bible on the subject and nature of the church. Meh. Won’t be the first time some teen made a stupid comment.
Bieber is not my musical cup of tea, but he reps for God every chance he gets. It would be very easy for him to downplay his faith, so I don’t think we should be overly critical of him. He loves Jesus, he is a brother in Christ. He ain’t the problem, but he does represent some of the attitudes of the young teens raised in Christian homes. Let’s give him some respect and listen to his comments. We’ve already lost many young adults because many churches got confused on what their mission is. Maybe when the next generation of teens decides to or not to join the church we will have helped the local church by making it relevant and attractive to them without watering down the gospel.
Bieb’s is right. A lot of people who are religious get lost. They go just to go, especially in America. He’s right. He doesn’t have to GO to church.
And Todd, this isn’t a surprise coming from someone OUTSIDE of your building. It matters not the age of the person.
Todd, all the questions you have posed for discussion depend on your foundation. Everyone will say that their foundation is Christ. However, Bieber sees his foundation as God. So he prays and talks to Him. If you’re trying to give him a church, it doesn’t translate. The church he sees is religious. We need to stop trying to FIX the church. The answer to that question is, no one can fix the church, religion, the Bride…whatever.
I’m exhausted from proof-texting. Clipping scriptures from all over the bible to price a way of thinking…come on. Why do we have the bible any way? Why do we have nature? Why do we have families? Why do we have marriage? Why do we have biological systems that compose our bodies? Why do we have a massive universe? My brothers and sisters, it is to point us all to the GREATNESS of Christ! Not some doctrine or system or religion or way of doing spiritual things or some way of living.
There are two foundations that need to be communicated here. Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life. Bieber has chosen the tree o knowledge of good and evil. Religion has too. Todd, you have too. I have too. We have chosen the wrong foundation. We need to pursue the foundation from the tree of life. Who is Christ. See Christ as your food. He will fix everything he wants and wills. The other tree thinks it can.
Let’s cut that tree down.
Every day.
Christ = Life = Body, where He is the Head = Building, where He is the cornerstone = Family = Groom to the Bride = God’s Son, Who is our Brother.
He is the foundation of corporate Life. May He reveal Himself to us.
Mark,
One of the mega themes of the Bible is it is bringing God’s Kingdom to people. It is a spiritual truth, but it is also lived out in our physical lives. God is calling a people to be His. He does save individuals, he does save families, and then he connects them to the rest of His Kingdom. Numbers are important to God; his original design was all people all the time glorifying him and connected to each other. If you read the Bible you see God’s idea of church done well and church done poorly: lack of faith is bad, small church is bad (not bad as in evil, but as not yet what God designed-of course all churches start small), lots of believers but no unity is bad, irrelevant church is bad, apathetic church is bad, lots of laws but no love is also bad. Then you see unity is good, growing in God’s truth together is good, serving one another is good, outreach is good, corporate prayer and worship is good, and a daily life intertwined with other believers is good.
So this is what God is doing, he is building a nation of people unified by the Holy Spirit to worship and mature in faith together all centered on and empowered by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He plans on using people to love and teach other people. It is a huge family where we are united by common blood. The older more mature family members welcome the younger family members into the fold and offer them a safe environment to grow and learn. And the whole family as a unit is empowered and entrusted with ministry, reaching others for the faith, calling new Kingdom citizens, but also serving the community (our neighbors and the needy) at large. God is building a corporate Kingdom one individual life at a time.
God is unifying a people without destroying their individuality. There is conformity to God’s law, to God’s values, to God’s will, and a desire to reflect God’s character, but like individual works of art, each individual is a beautiful masterpiece painted with varied brush strokes and color pallets but a common theme. God is restoring order to a broken world and his chief agent is the unified Church.
You seem to have a misunderstanding about what the church is to be and what the church currently is. I look at my own life and I know I’m a paradoxical mix of God-loving-born- again-saint and selfish-sinner. I’m saved, but I’m not perfect in living out what I’ve obtained, that is Christ is my salvation, my life, and my fulfillment of God’s perfect requirements. My life now is one of sanctification-getting my actual performance to match my Grace given acceptance. The Church is the same thing, a bunch of saint/sinners working together imperfectly to serve a perfect God who by Grace empowers them and sends them forth in His Name and His Authority; agents of the Kingdom.
Because you were burned in the past by organized religion you kind of throw the baby out with the bath water. Every religion apart from Christ is bad; they are all self-saving projects, divinely themed self help but done in man’s power. Christianity is always relationship based, it looks like a religion to untrained eyes but they don’t see the invisible coalescing force working to unite the believers.
Organized religion is not bad if it is organized by Christ. Organized religion can be very bad, if it is organized by man. Even your own ideas of what the church should be are based off of organization, just done on a small scale. Christ can handle the big scale, he can lead a large family. In fact that is one of the glories of the Church when done well, if God is behind it, it works even though based on all worldly appearances it should fail. So the aim should not be to keep local churches small, but to try to get us more attached to Christ as a unifying agent. Not a question of being big or small, organized or small home churches, but more of an attempt to do both better at the same time.
Steve,
Not sure you read my post. There is no desire to focus on any issue that you are trying to distract others to. My desire is Christ. I see Christ, who is eternally now. Not past. Not future. Now.
Discussing mega themes is not my interest. Let’s speak of Christ and His GREATNESS! He is able to fix, heal, cleanse, build, multiply, break, sift, encourage, edify, commune with, love us and much more. And we are IN HIM! Therefore, we get to be a part of all of those things with others.
Beiber is right. A lot of people who are religious get lost in all of the distractions that take them away from Christ and Christ alone. Christ is ALL IN ALL! And Beiber is right. He doesn’t have to GO to church. “Going to church” is not Christ.
Revelation. For those given eyes to see, ears to hear and the hunger for Christ. Seek Him. Seek Him out with others with the same hunger. Christ taste is indescribable! The Church is to be an expression of Him. May we feast on Him. May He be in us. May we express Him.
Besides, that is God’s will when you come down to the root of Him. Be in Him and express Him. That is His Church!
Okay, I misunderstood, it sounded like you were saying going to church is not what Christ has called us to do as part of our being connected to Him.
Yes Christ is great and it is wonderful to see Him working in all kinds of Churches.
You might want to clarify your statement to Todd about those OUTSIDE his building. It almost sounds critical of those who because of obedience to Christ and out of genuine delight at His Grace find themselves serving in traditional church models. I’m glad to hear that wasn’t your point, forgive my misunderstanding.